Joe, 33, Brighton
Occupation GP
Voting record Labour every general election; wanted to vote Lib Dem in 2010 but was two months too young
Amuse bouche He and his partner used their parental leave to take their two children, aged three and seven months, on a road trip from Melbourne to Adelaide, in a camper van
Stuart, 39, London
Occupation History and politics teacher
Voting record Always Labour, and in 2029 will most likely feel bound, by first past the post, to vote Labour again, but would do so reluctantly
Amuse bouche Runs a sound system with some friends, playing deep house and disco, and they’ve just started a club night in Brixton, south London
For starters
Joe He looked friendly – he smiled from the beginning.
Stuart He was welcoming and open, and I found him really interesting.
Joe We got some bao buns and edamame. And then we had noodles. I ordered the pork and chickpea, and he had the extra-hot, spicy beef ones.
Stuart I went a bit extra, because I don’t get out much.
The big beef
Joe Stuart thought we shouldn’t pander to Donald Trump – we don’t agree with him, and we should take more of a principled stance, not flatter him with state visits and pomp and pageantry and stuff like that. It’s noticeable that Trump changed his line on Ukraine right after the state visit. Whether that’s coincidence or causal, I don’t know. He’s the democratically elected leader of America, so we have to accept that and accommodate it. Stuart thinks we’re appeasing Trump. But he’s obviously got some strong anti-European voices around him in America, and leaders like Macron and Starmer can change his stance.
Stuart He felt the Labour government and Keir Starmer had played that quite well. My point of view is that Trump’s a bit of a despot and an authoritarian. We’ve voted for a Labour government, we pay our taxes, we support our government – we want to feel represented by them. I didn’t feel that honouring Trump with a state visit was very representative of the views of most Labour voters.
Joe I thought Starmer handled it very well – Trump is partial to flattery, so if we’ve got something like a king to flatter him, just use anything we’ve got available to make our lives better.
Stuart I did quite like his point about rolling out the royal family for Trump, making King Charles work geopolitics, but, in this day and age, where we’re taught that we’re all foundationally equal, I don’t believe in having a head of state based on bloodlines. So it all seems wrong – an authoritarian being flattered by an illegitimate head of state.
Sharing plate
Joe We talked about public sector pay increases. Stuart said, in the current economic situation, he thought the pay offer they received isn’t terrible – and he’d probably rather there was more money in the schools budget than wages directed to him. I agreed with that. In the health sector, sometimes it’s not just about money for you: money in the sector would make your job easier.
Stuart He didn’t support the resident doctors’ strike. They’d just got a 22% pay rise – he said it was a bad reading of the mood. Normally I would support any union action by public sector workers, but I was somewhat in agreement with him. More broadly, I believe that anybody working in the public sector should be able to afford the necessities of life; more than that, they should be able to live a good life.
For afters
Joe Stuart thought Andy Burnham had a positive leftwing agenda. I thought Burnham was being too open about his ambitions. It’s not helpful to the Labour party, to start stirring up things just before conference.
Stuart His point was that we need to give Keir Starmer some time, and my point was: I don’t even know if it’s third-way socialism, or more of the same of what the Conservatives were offering us. Burnham’s critiquing this idea that the government is in hock to the bond markets. Rachel Reeves’s fiscal policy is the determiner of the slow change.
Takeaways
Joe We both ordered a cocktail at the end. It was called A Fresh Start. He said that’s what we could get with Andy Burnham.
Stuart It was a really positive experience. I’ll probably speak to him again.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
Joe and Stuart ate at Liu Xiaomian Carnaby in London W1
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