Yusuf, 47, Edgbaston
Occupation Economics tutor and content creator
Voting record Labour. Yusuf describes himself as “what would have been old centre-left. Left of Starmer – who isn’t?”
Amuse bouche At an event by the motivational speaker Tony Robbins, who was demonstrating that people are more capable than they think, Yusuf once walked over hot coals
Mark, 66, Walsall
Occupation Former nurse, then lecturer, now retired
Voting record Has voted for most parties – last time Conservative and next time he’ll probably vote Reform
Amuse bouche Mark once scored twice for England against Germany … at the wedding of his sister, who married a German (England lost the match)
For starters
Mark Since I had surgery for Parkinson’s, I sometimes have trouble finding the words. Yusuf is quite eloquent, and very passionate in what he believes. I do drink but I just had a blackcurrant and soda. I had a sirloin steak, then a pancake with ice-cream.
Yusuf You’ve got a certain image of what you think a Reform voter looks like – a white T-shirt with a union jack, or a red-faced, portly kind of guy – and that was completely taken away. He was very genial. I’ve been 16 years sober, so I had a Diet Coke. And a ribeye steak, which was gorgeous.
The big beef
Mark Current levels of immigration are unsustainable. A lot of the people coming on small boats are honest, prepared to work, but some aren’t. They could be criminals or terrorists.
Yusuf Put yourself in their shoes. No one leaves a happy home, a country where they are settled and living a good life. You’re talking about people who’ve got nothing or everything’s been taken away from them. Small boat crossing is a small percentage; most of the immigration into this country is completely legal.
Mark There’s an ethical dimension to tempting skilled people to a rich country, because we’re causing other countries to have shortages. A concern I’ve had for years is overpopulation of the UK, because of energy security, water, health service, education, housing, etc. And there are communities that live completely parallel lives and don’t come into contact with the rest of the population. I do think that is an issue – particularly when migrants are coming from countries where human rights or treatment of women are appalling.
Yusuf I talked about my dad coming here. It’s not like we suddenly become British; people do what they would have done in their home country. A lot of the countries Britain colonised, such as India, were well developed economically, but Britain went in and took stuff and set them back. It’s not like we came to get our stuff back, but we came to where stuff is.
Sharing plate
Mark We agreed when people become super affluent, no amount of money is enough. I would want a wealth tax.
Yusuf Mark said wealth inequality was all Thatcher’s fault and talked about the historical seeds she had sown. He didn’t strike me as a Conservative!
For afters
Mark Nigel Farage does have the gift of the gab, doesn’t he? I would trust him with the economy, though reducing public spending will upset a lot of people so maybe he’ll have to temper his intentions. I will vote with a heavy heart because he’s given the impression he’s not interested in the NHS; it would be sad to go down the private healthcare road. I worked in the NHS for 26 years. But I won’t vote Conservative or Labour; they’ve had their chance.
Yusuf I said to Mark: think about who your bedfellows in Reform are. There are some really nasty people, you’re not one of them, your views are not their views. Farage and his deputy, Richard Tice, are very rich businesspeople who don’t really care about the country, but are trying to appeal to people’s worst fears and impulses to get elected.
Takeaway
Mark Now I’m retired, I don’t get the young person’s perspective as much as I did when I was a lecturer. I enjoyed the evening very much.
Yusuf It actually scares me that potential Reform voters are not all tub-thumping, union jack-emblazoned thugs. But I came away feeling positive that if you calmly discuss some of those ideas, you may be able to change people’s hearts and minds a little.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
Mark and Yusuf ate at Gaucho in Birmingham.
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